This conversation, presented here for the first time in German, represents one of the rare testimonies in which Emmanuel Levinas comments on visual art. Starting from the sculptures of the French sculptor Sacha Sosno, the text addresses the complex relationship between ethics and aesthetics not, as one might expect from Levinas, through the face and language, but through the concept of l'oblitération. With "Obliteration," Levinas refers to something that reveals a genuinely artistic way of thinking and turns towards artistic operations and practices. This "Unavailability" is essentially characterized by a disruptive nature. Levinas thus turns away from the "carefree lightness of beauty" and towards the material processes of wear and tear. He affirms this precisely because of its creative potential for the uniqueness of the present. The conversation text is supplemented by photographs.